Deprecated: Optional parameter $post_id declared before required parameter $field is implicitly treated as a required parameter in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/acf-value-functions.php on line 54

Deprecated: Optional parameter $value declared before required parameter $field is implicitly treated as a required parameter in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/acf-value-functions.php on line 166

Deprecated: Optional parameter $post_id declared before required parameter $field is implicitly treated as a required parameter in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/acf-value-functions.php on line 166

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property ACF::$fields is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/fields.php on line 136

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_loop::$loops is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/loop.php on line 26

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property ACF::$loop is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/loop.php on line 270

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property ACF::$revisions is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/revisions.php on line 413

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_validation::$errors is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/validation.php on line 26

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property ACF::$validation is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/validation.php on line 212

Deprecated: Optional parameter $key declared before required parameter $value is implicitly treated as a required parameter in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/ajax/class-acf-ajax.php on line 76

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_customizer::$preview_values is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-customizer.php on line 26

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_customizer::$preview_fields is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-customizer.php on line 27

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_customizer::$preview_errors is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-customizer.php on line 28

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property ACF::$form_front is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-front.php on line 603

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_widget::$preview_values is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-widget.php on line 34

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_widget::$preview_reference is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-widget.php on line 35

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_form_widget::$preview_errors is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/forms/form-widget.php on line 36

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 955

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 955

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 1528

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 2267

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 3112

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 3118

Deprecated: Using ${var} in strings is deprecated, use {$var} instead in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/updraftplus/class-updraftplus.php on line 3236

Deprecated: Constant FILTER_SANITIZE_STRING is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/wp-external-links/includes/admin/class-wpel-network-page.php on line 52

Deprecated: Constant FILTER_SANITIZE_STRING is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/wp-external-links/includes/admin/class-wpel-settings-page.php on line 79

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_field_oembed::$width is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/fields/class-acf-field-oembed.php on line 31

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_field_oembed::$height is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/fields/class-acf-field-oembed.php on line 32

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_field_google_map::$default_values is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/fields/class-acf-field-google-map.php on line 33

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_field__group::$have_rows is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/fields/class-acf-field-group.php on line 31

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_plugin_font_awesome::$settings is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields-font-awesome/acf-font-awesome.php on line 50

Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property acf_field_font_awesome::$settings is deprecated in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields-font-awesome/fields/acf-font-awesome-v5.php on line 21

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-content/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/includes/acf-value-functions.php:54) in /home4/jensonje/public_html/voynichportal/wp-includes/feed-rss2-comments.php on line 8
Comments on: Multilingual Melting Pots https://voynichportal.com/2018/07/20/multilingual-melting-pots/ Ruminations about the mysterious 15th century "cipher manuscript" Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:13:20 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.3 By: J.K. Petersen https://voynichportal.com/2018/07/20/multilingual-melting-pots/#comment-9606 Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:13:20 +0000 https://voynichportal.com/?p=6433#comment-9606 In reply to VViews.

Very interesting examples.

]]>
By: VViews https://voynichportal.com/2018/07/20/multilingual-melting-pots/#comment-9603 Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:38:08 +0000 https://voynichportal.com/?p=6433#comment-9603 Hi JKP,
I agree with much of what you’ve written here, and certainly with the impression that there is more to it than one-to-one substitution.
I especially think that this: ” If it is a blended language (especially disparate languages like German and Romance), then statistical studies that focus on individual languages may not provide useful information” is true, not just for intentionally blended languages but also for such pidgins and micro-languages such as the alpine valley ones.
The difficulty, of course, is finding a text in those languages that would be long enough for us to make those kinds of statistical studies.
I ran into this exact problem at a time when I was looking into the 13thC miners’ pidgin from Trentino. Just for comparison, I’ll copy-paste something about it I added to a forum thread about two years ago so you see why I found it interesting:
“They are German words with the addition of Latin grammatical endings… a fact which sometimes makes them very difficult to understand…
Werchi = gewerke (shareholder)
Silbrarii = silbererzbergmann (silverminer)
Wassar = wascher (ore washer)
Smellzer = schmelzer (smelter)
Gestaldio = verwalter (administrator, steward)
Xencator = senker, schachtabeufer (man sinking a shaft)
Dorslagus = durschlag (cross cut)
Xurfus = schurf (cut, trench)
Carregi or Carowego = karrenweg, forderstrecke (main drift for cart)
Sega = sage (saw)
Arcentaria = erzbergwerk (metal mine)
Xafetum = Schacht (shaft)
Rota = rad, pochwerk (grinding mill with water wheel)”

It really is a shame that this, like so many of the rarer alpine linguistic gems, have disappeared over time.

]]>
By: J.K. Petersen https://voynichportal.com/2018/07/20/multilingual-melting-pots/#comment-9599 Wed, 25 Jul 2018 04:34:19 +0000 https://voynichportal.com/?p=6433#comment-9599 I don’t know if the person who wrote the marginalia was involved with the development of the manuscript. I do think that he or she lived close in time to the creation of the VMS, based on paleographic characteristics. Consider that the VMS text itself has certain commonalities with the Tischlbong language (note the word for October in Tischlbong and the MANY tokens in the VMS zodiac section that almost say “otobar” without too much squinting or manipulation)—in other words, the vowel-consonant balance is very similar (I don’t know if VMS vowels are actually vowels, but the way tokens are put together is similar in rhythm if one reads them as vowels).

I am not explicitly trying to say it’s Tischlbong, however, for the very reason you mentioned… there are many small pockets in this area and on the other side of Lombardy that have these characteristics, but since I mostly talk about the ones near Switzerland/Provençe, I wanted to include at least one from the Veneto region. We don’t know how many blended languages died out between 1400 and the present.

I don’t even know if the VMS is natural language. Based on one-to-one substitution I’m quite sure it is not, but there are other forms of substitution and other ways of encoding information, so it remains an open question.

I have had a number of people criticize me for suggesting the final page is polyglot, so I wanted to post some examples of languages that are inherently polyglot, hence the previous blog on macaronic, and also this blog, to demonstrate that there are languages that naturally mix German and Latin, and also German and Romance languages, and that they exist even today.

IF the VMS is natural language and IF the designer is from the same region as the marginalia writer (a bigger “if”) then MAYBE the VMS also represents a blended language or perhaps an effort to resolve two languages into one (inventing universal languages was the rage in the 16th century, but it’s not certain if people were doing this in the early 15th century). If it is a blended language (especially disparate languages like German and Romance), then statistical studies that focus on individual languages may not provide useful information.

]]>
By: VViews https://voynichportal.com/2018/07/20/multilingual-melting-pots/#comment-9594 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:15:01 +0000 https://voynichportal.com/?p=6433#comment-9594 Hi JKP,
I understand why you find this language interesting, considering the properties you describe.
However, there are literally dozens of languages and pidgins in that region (alpine valleys, Trentino-Alto Adige, etc) which exhibit all the same properties, compressing, mixing latin with german, italian with german, etc. Why focus on Tischlbong?
Also it is unclear to me: are you suggesting Tischlbong for 116v or the whole Voynich Manuscript?

]]>